Curse

free_fall · Nov 01, 2007, 02:35 AM // 02:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ulterion

Grouping with people that don't even have an elite skill so far into the game.

This comment was listed as one of his peeves in Ulterion's post to the "In-game peeves" thread and it got me to thinking ...

I'm been in groups where, after pinging bars, people have said to someone in the party "you have no elite?" and, yes, a couple of times it was me on the receiving end.

Normally, I wouldn't even think of not having an elite on my bar. The one exception was my 1st rit. After perusing the elites on the wiki, I just didn't see any that looked interesting or useful enough (in terms of E cost, duration, effect) to bother capping. The lack of an elite didn't seem to limit her effectiveness in any way - Protector an all 3 campaigns, solo'd Masters on Jennuhr's Horde, Varesh, etc, blah blah blah.

I did recently cap Spirit's Stength - it's a lovely skill, cheap, long duration, nice effect. After trying it out for a bit, however, I find it of limited usefulness in that I'm usually only getting a few actual wand-shots off between casting spells. Still, every little bit helps and since I'm usually out with H&H, I suppose I could take it instead of res, that would still leave 7 others with res. Doing so in a PUG, though, might not be such a good idea.

So, I was curious if other people have chars that intentionally forego using any elites? And what do you tell people when they ask why you don't?

Omniclasm · Nov 01, 2007, 02:42 AM // 02:42

With most builds, an elite could replace a skill on the bar and do a better job.

Rits do have fairly useless elites. However, Spirit Light Weapon, Offering of Spirit, and Attuned was Songkai are 3 good elites, and you will have points in atleast one of these attributes.

crazy diamond · Nov 01, 2007, 02:55 AM // 02:55

As mentioned, most elites tend to be improved versions of basic skills. More often than not you can find room for an elite on your bar that would make a significant difference. Off the top of my head I can't think of a single build I've used that couldn't do with an elite in one way or another.

Still, as what elites you can and do have depends greatly on what campaigns you own, I don't believe it's particularly fair to berate people over it. We all had to make due with basic skills until we could cap those elites we wanted, and somehow we managed. So I don't see how you couldn't go on without them if you so chose to.

Dr Strangelove · Nov 01, 2007, 03:04 AM // 03:04

Not having any elite skills generally means you've been playing for about 10 minutes, and are therefore bad. I'll give you that most elite rit skills are bad, bu there's still a few (offering of spirit) worth bringing.

Snow Bunny · Nov 01, 2007, 03:07 AM // 03:07

...

Elites are normally worth taking.

Unless it's like "Coward".

Then goodness knows why you're taking it/why you have that.

I normally insist my puggers take an elite, if only because it'll make things slightly more interesting.

Biostem · Nov 01, 2007, 03:13 AM // 03:13

Generally speaking, there is an elite that is basically the same as a normal skill, only better. That being said, not everyone thinks to check where to cap them, and may not even be aware of the ability to buy more sigs.

I've encountered quite a few people who *just* want to play the game - they don't want to dig around in forums or guild wiki at all. Personally, I love capping elites - they benefit my character and become available for my heroes. I can remember when i finally got flesh golem and how anxious i was to give Olias a sup death rune and max the thing out.

Anyway, yeah - elites are good mmmkay

arcanemacabre · Nov 01, 2007, 03:27 AM // 03:27

Meh, when I started playing, it was on my necro, and I ran with no elite all the way through Prophecies. Of course, this was pre-SR and pre-MM nerfs, so I was able to keep up massive armies without the need for any elites.

It's very possible, even now, to make entirely effective builds without elites - especially with PvE-only skills. Still, elites are designed to be better, and in most cases are better, than normal skills, and will make your build more effective by definition. If you have them, use them, if not, get them. <- Moral of the story.

VitisVinifera · Nov 01, 2007, 03:30 AM // 03:30

wanderlust owns

although the -50 spirit nerf wasn't fair for regular pve'ers

rick1027 · Nov 01, 2007, 03:35 AM // 03:35

i believe before factions on my ele i didn't carry an elite for the longest time i think it was time i got factions is when i started trying out more elites. it was actually nightfall when he started carrying one regularly

strcpy · Nov 01, 2007, 05:22 AM // 05:22

There are only a VERY few times I've gone without one.

There has been an occasional farming build over time that didn't use one.

A minion master doesn't have any really good elites out there. Not that the skills they have are bad, but the elites for them typically aren't all that "elite" (at least compared to other class/builds). But then, the MM is strong enough as is, I can't see how they could have a skill truly worthy of being called an "elite" anyway and still have anything close to balance. Up until the major MM change at Factions release I normally ran without one.

And, lastly, when I did not have any. The only time this was more than a few days was back when I very first started playing. As of now I blow through most of the game with new characters or, now, just use an elite skill tome.

Other than that, I pretty much see no good builds out there that do not use one. As is said, they are normally a better drop in replacement for a regular skill. Personally I wouldn't be terribly picky about it, GW PvE is MUCH more centered on teamwork than your skill bar anyway - though I would ask why they didn't use one.

Sakura Az · Nov 01, 2007, 05:27 AM // 05:27

some builds i have don't need an elite because there isn't one that is sufficiant for use in it.

blue.rellik · Nov 01, 2007, 05:35 AM // 05:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by strcpy

There are only a VERY few times I've gone without one.

There has been an occasional farming build over time that didn't use one.

A minion master doesn't have any really good elites out there. Not that the skills they have are bad, but the elites for them typically aren't all that "elite" (at least compared to other class/builds). But then, the MM is strong enough as is, I can't see how they could have a skill truly worthy of being called an "elite" anyway and still have anything close to balance. Up until the major MM change at Factions release I normally ran without one.

And, lastly, when I did not have any. The only time this was more than a few days was back when I very first started playing. As of now I blow through most of the game with new characters or, now, just use an elite skill tome.

Other than that, I pretty much see no good builds out there that do not use one. As is said, they are normally a better drop in replacement for a regular skill. Personally I wouldn't be terribly picky about it, GW PvE is MUCH more centered on teamwork than your skill bar anyway - though I would ask why they didn't use one.

[skill]Aura of the Lich[/skill][skill]Order of Undeath[/skill][skill]Jagged Bones[/skill]

Do not mention Flesh Golem.

Drakken Breathes Fire · Nov 01, 2007, 05:36 AM // 05:36

I cleared pretty much ALL areas I've come to yet without an elite. My heroes, for the longest time, had no elites aswell. (Most still dont, only my favourites, currently.)

Mark of Pain and a melee hero is a poor mans SS. Once I got SS, I kept MoP for a little while and started realizing the two did not function well together, infact MoP in some cases was better than SS because of the fact it killed the mob faster than the target. SS can do either or, depending, and at which point you're left with 1 dead target, maybe one other SS is still active and only half of the mob is a5 50% health and VERY pissed off. (Though, when it DOES work nicely, that many numbers flying off all at once is *VERY* agreeable.)

Elites are better for most things but a lot of it comes from prestige aswell.
(You might even find a challenge in playing without elites.)

Quote:

Originally Posted by blue.rellik

[skill]Aura of the Lich[/skill][skill]Order of Undeath[/skill][skill]Jagged Bones[/skill]

Do not mention Flesh Golem.

Another Flash Golem hater. *scoffs.*
We all know the only reason people don't like it is the fact there are just 'better' skills.

He does his job; slow, steady, brainless, damage buffer. He's not a damage dealer, but I wouldn't go so far as to say he 'sucks.'
Don't hate, appreciate. Exploitable corpse AND Sou Reaping bonus? Yes please!

garethporlest18 · Nov 01, 2007, 05:38 AM // 05:38

The best players, play without elites.

blue.rellik · Nov 01, 2007, 05:45 AM // 05:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drakken Breathes Fire

Another Flash Golem hater. *scoffs.*
We all know the only reason people don't like it is the fact there are just 'better' skills.

He does his job; slow, steady, brainless, damage buffer. He's not a damage dealer, but I wouldn't go so far as to say he 'sucks.'
Don't hate, appreciate. Exploitable corpse AND Sou Reaping bonus? Yes please!

Strictly inferior? Yes please? AotL lets you spam blood of the master and tank better than pretty much any other caster (with dark bond, you can tank as good as a 55). OoU gives superior damage (it has been tested) while JB is awesome with minion bombing as well as making minions when there are no bodies

Flesh Golem does a good job of taking a hell of a long time recharging and slowly killing things

The Great Al · Nov 01, 2007, 05:50 AM // 05:50

As an ele, I'd be pretty lost without my elites. Air and Water don't really have very good elites, but dual attunes works very well.

Omniclasm · Nov 01, 2007, 05:51 AM // 05:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Great Al

As an ele, I'd be pretty lost without my elites. Air and Water don't really have very good elites, but dual attunes works very well.

Didn't play in 2005 I am guessing?

Drakken Breathes Fire · Nov 01, 2007, 05:55 AM // 05:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by blue.rellik

Strictly inferior? Yes please? AotL lets you spam blood of the master and tank better than pretty much any other caster (with dark bond, you can tank as good as a 55). OoU gives superior damage (it has been tested) while JB is awesome with minion bombing as well as making minions when there are no bodies

Flesh Golem does a good job of taking a hell of a long time recharging and slowly killing things

And you know everything about the 'better' skills because you know that the acronym OoU is 'Aura(Order) of Undeath.' (Wait for it, wait for it; 'ouch, sick burn.')

Every skill in the game has it's purpose and practical application unless otherwise nerfed beyond repair. A Stupid Flesh Golem isn't nearly as bad as a Stupid Minion Master who will likely KILL himself off entirely from OoU because he hasn't sufficient self heal enough. An AoTL Necromancer is an appetizer for any life stealing attacks as they're just not reduced and degen hurts too.

Alphabet · Nov 01, 2007, 05:58 AM // 05:58

Oh god 2005.

One Ele does Lightning Surge, then that ele and rest queue up Chain Lightning, Followed by Lightning Orb, then Lightning Strike.

321airspike, those were the weird days. But strangely fun.

Fitz Rinley · Nov 01, 2007, 05:58 AM // 05:58

I am not impressed with many rit elites, but I have come to really enjoy one of them. I love Signet of Spirits. I mostly Channel since I do a lot of H/H. And H/Hs don't seem to have any clue unless you are attacking. (And after a few moments ago in Surmia Hard Mode, I am not sure they have a clue when you are attacking as minions, Oli, Koss, Rurik, and Erol all simply stood there and watched me solo a Charr Chaot/Mind Spark team - I gave all of them my oppinion on that too. Dunk properly avoided combat and healed as instructed.) On my Rit tho, I am running: Flesh of my Flesh, Signet of Spirits, Spirit Rift, Wielder's Strike, Splinter Weapon, Bloodsong, Agony, and Vampirism. I find the elite very useful in maintaining a constand flood of Spirit Rift and thus keeping my H/H focussed while I dash short distances to keep my spirits separated from AoE attacks.

That being said, currently my two most used MM builds on my heroes do not have any elites at all. Both center on minions and Death Nova. My current Mesmer builds (non-hero) have no elites at all as she is 14th level and ust leaving Ascalon. She only recently escaped Istan after completing the minimum necessary to do so on her own merit and is now doing Prophecies for free skills. (My Mes heroes use Migraine, and my Ele occasionally uses echo.)

My Paragon, survivor, is about 20% on way to rank 2 survivor, and does not use any elite skills at all. He is Party Support Para without the elite in that build (can't get to it) so he has been using For Great Justice instead. So far so good.

Recently I started using my ranger as Bunny-Thumper - but she does not have the skills needed. So, instead I am using Heal as One and Never Rampage Alone, and then some hammer attacks. It got her masters in Raisu and against Shiro. So, good enough.

So, elites can be fun, but they are not always needed. The builds listed in PvX are great inspiration, and sometimes needed just as is for special teams or missions. But it is better to have the skills you can work well, than the skills that work for someone else and which you cannot work.